Jun 19, 2010 -- 5:34PM, Rebel_Raven wrote:

So I disagree with it? That's not the point of my post per say. I posted my thoughts on the entirity of the nerf posts, and this thread was in the right place at the right time, or wrong ones depending on your view. How long this thread last doesn't matter to me all that much, one way or the other.

Are you looking at the pros in using a rocket over a plasma cannons? I don't think you've listed one.

Like range. Can you deny rockets have superior range? I can't deny that, but with that being said, on most maps, this is a moot point because there's still a really good range on those. And given the speed of rockets, the range doesn't matter all that much unless someone is standing perfectly still, or if you can time it with the person's direction of travel, which is extremely difficult to do.

Manual reloading is not always a bad thing. It makes you more careful about how you shoot. That's sniper mentality. It is when you're up against someone who can fire three highly powerful shots in the time it takes you to fire one.

Regardless Plasma Cannons aren't exactly machineguns either. Plasma weapons have a lag between each shot, and can overheat denying access to firing longer than it takes to reload. A moot point since they're the fastest firing heavy weapon and you can get off at least three consecutive shots before overheating. If you can't kill someone in three consecutive shots, then I guess that's your bad.

Lets not forget that being at 0 t-energy will kill you without an ability. Rockets won't hurry that process at all unlike energy hungry plasma cannons. I don't believe I've ever had a problem with my health running out in online multiplayer with my thermal energy at zero.

Lets look at projectile velocity. Rockets win there, do they not? They do, but barely. They're closer in speed than the plasma gun is to the rifle.

While both are excellent in damage, Rockets, last I checked, still do more damage. Perhaps even far more. Either way, you're dead unless you're in a VS or have Survival.

With that in mind, plasma would likely be better vs Soft targets. If you're in a match with all soft targets it won't matter much. Rocket damage is meant to be anti-VS, don't you think? Making the rocket launcher completely obsolete in matches with no VS's.

Plasma Cannons aren't all that silent. Their projectiles may well be. They're a hell of a lot more quiet than the rocket launcher.

What about accuracy? A rocket can slip into tight spaces far easier than a large energy ball, or a spread that'll likely defeat itself if it hits an obstacle. The spread bounces of vertical walls making it highly superior in maps like Friction, which I completely do not agree with.

What about the fact that with energy weapons one has to go out of their way for t-energy? This may be a mixed blessing depending on the map, the mode, etc. If a person can't get a good supply of energy, then they're effectively out of ammo, and in danger of dying of 0 t-eng on top of that. Every time you kill someone, you get thermal energy, and you can get quite a bit, just don't spam shoot like an idiot and waste it all.

While I understand you prefer the simple Rocket Launcher, lets look at some pros of other Rocket Launchers.

RL2 allows for target tracking which no other heavy weapon boasts. Way too easy to dodge and roll, and don't even get me started. I can't stand this weapon haha.

RL SP allows for mortar shots which means they're long range grenades. What other weapon can you reliably get your hands on arcs like that short of a grenade that'll have far less range? Further SPs have a clip. That makes aiming at targets a lot harder if you're trying to calculate arc. The bounce of vertical walls is cool, but I've seen the plasma cannon SP do the same thing, just not as extreme of an angle as the rocket launcher SP can do. The clip is probably the best feature of the SP, actually making it somewhat balanced with the firing capabilities of the plasma cannons.

In the end, don't be afraid to change your equipment now and then. Personal bias won't get you far if you're using the wrong weapon in the wrong situation. Lost planet 2 is all about the right equipment for the right job even though some might make decent stand ins. No weapon makes the other completely obsolete thanks to that. They all have strong points they're geared towards more than others. Each weapon is unique (Cept maybe the gold ones. I dunno.) so look at the benefits of all the weapons. I do like to switch up my weapons quite a bit, but if you're saying that you need to have the right weapon for the right job, then does that mean you agree that the original rocket launchers have been made obsolete in flesh matches? That is what my issue really is. The original rocket launcher could be pumped up a bit to compete with the other weapons.

Plasmas are likely meant to be used against fleshy targets. Rockets are likely intended to be anti-hard target. Regardless, the Rocket's range, and speed of projectile is an asset. That may be, but the hand cannons do a better job of destroying hard targets, dominates in speed, and works very well in flesh matches doing damage upon impact and while exploding. The only downfall is ammo, smaller hit boxes, and less of an explosion.

IMO asking for buffs, and/or nerfs ain't going to work if you refrain from looking at the pros and cons of both sides.

So whether it be hand cannons, plasma cannons, or either of the other rocket launchers, the original LP1 rocket launcher has been made obsolete from my perspective. There are better weapons than the rocket launcher for any job, except fighting the Over G at the end of the game.

Jun 19, 2010 -- 6:01PM, KaosSwirl wrote:

I 3rd this, im getting real sick of seeing all these "this weapon needs to be nerfed" topics. and im getting pretty sick of the 1 person whos posting all of them...

I posted one about flame-based weapons and one about plasma cannons, that's it. And I offered other suggestions rather than nerfing, like making it easier to extinguish the flames or souping up the rocket launcher to help compete with the new heavy weapons. I said nothing about nerfing energy guns or shotguns which I saw in other posts. Thank you very much for such harsh accusations.

Jun 19, 2010 -- 6:40PM, Justin wrote:

As I usually agree with norcal, this time I'm going to have to disagree. You see the consumption of thermal energey itself is a huge disadvantage, especially in campaign. Thermal energy is used for everything, healing, VS's, opening boxes and notice how people with Plasma Heavy weapons are always scouring for thermal and tend to hang around data posts it is because there is no reload time so theyre thermal is quickley depleted and then they can't get in VS's or reap the benfits of Thermal. Not too mention if they try to abuse no reload time they then overheat and it takes forever, but here are some proposed solutions to make evryone happy:

longer penalty for an overheat

a little more time in between shots before you can shoot again

but I don't nessecarily like the above solutions...it's just an alternative so we don't have to tone down plasma weapons I honestly think they are fine the way they are. No offense to any party. 

I would like to see the flash practically disappear because I really don't like being completely blinded like that, and making the reload time faster and the hit radius bigger on the rocket launchers. I think that would be the most fair solution.

So...If the plasma weapons are superier to Rocket Launcher Variations, why not just use the Plasma Cannon SP instead?

Jun 20, 2010 -- 6:09PM, NorcalNiner408 wrote:

Jun 19, 2010 -- 5:34PM, Rebel_Raven wrote:

 

So I disagree with it? That's not the point of my post per say. I posted my thoughts on the entirity of the nerf posts, and this thread was in the right place at the right time, or wrong ones depending on your view. How long this thread last doesn't matter to me all that much, one way or the other.

 

Are you looking at the pros in using a rocket over a plasma cannons? I don't think you've listed one.

 

Like range. Can you deny rockets have superior range? I can't deny that, but with that being said, on most maps, this is a moot point because there's still a really good range on those. And given the speed of rockets, the range doesn't matter all that much unless someone is standing perfectly still, or if you can time it with the person's direction of travel, which is extremely difficult to do.

Range always matters. Rockets can pelt a target from across the map. If you're on a tiny map you're not playing to the rocket's strength. It's not the rocket's fault.

If it's hard to hit someone with a rocket's speed, a plasma cannons's can't be any easier even with the spread.

If there's trouble aiming it sounds like a problem with the player, not the weapon. There's aim sensitivity, and recticle speed options.

Manual reloading is not always a bad thing. It makes you more careful about how you shoot. That's sniper mentality. It is when you're up against someone who can fire three highly powerful shots in the time it takes you to fire one.

Don't get close enough, have cover, and roll through their shots. Use the weapon's weaknesses against them. You can reload while jumpung. A well placed jump will hamper their aim on you.

 

Regardless Plasma Cannons aren't exactly machineguns either. Plasma weapons have a lag between each shot, and can overheat denying access to firing longer than it takes to reload. A moot point since they're the fastest firing heavy weapon and you can get off at least three consecutive shots before overheating. If you can't kill someone in three consecutive shots, then I guess that's your bad.

It's not moot. It's rare in lost planet where someone can be completely denied cover. Maybe their lack of range is compensated for the firing speed? And you can't even distract an opponent by firing a rocket at them to get away? Don't get into a fire fight with heavy weapons.

 

Lets not forget that being at 0 t-energy will kill you without an ability. Rockets won't hurry that process at all unlike energy hungry plasma cannons. I don't believe I've ever had a problem with my health running out in online multiplayer with my thermal energy at zero.

That's not a valid counterpoint until it's verified that being at 0 t-energy in multiplayer and living is possible. It might take a bit, but it's always lethal in Campaign without an ability, or uless you get more energy in time.

 

Lets look at projectile velocity. Rockets win there, do they not? They do, but barely. They're closer in speed than the plasma gun is to the rifle.

Less speed=more reaction time, regardless of how slow they are. The more time you have to rect the more time you have to jump, anchor, or roll, or perform some other defensive maneuver.

 

While both are excellent in damage, Rockets, last I checked, still do more damage. Perhaps even far more. Either way, you're dead unless you're in a VS or have Survival.

Then have survival? Or defense 1, or 2? Both are good against fleshy targets. That's why they're heavy weapons.

 

With that in mind, plasma would likely be better vs Soft targets. If you're in a match with all soft targets it won't matter much. Rocket damage is meant to be anti-VS, don't you think? Making the rocket launcher completely obsolete in matches with no VS's.

Then don't use the rocket launcher in matches with no VS? I know you like it, but that's not going to be enough of an arguement to make a weapon obsolete in buffing rocket launcher to where the plasma cannons are now useless. Even if you do use it, there's the simple fact that rocket launcher isn't energy based which can be a mixed blessing in itself.

 

Plasma Cannons aren't all that silent. Their projectiles may well be. They're a hell of a lot more quiet than the rocket launcher.

I simply stated it to get your point that they're silent out of the way. They make noise.

 

What about accuracy? A rocket can slip into tight spaces far easier than a large energy ball, or a spread that'll likely defeat itself if it hits an obstacle. The spread bounces of vertical walls making it highly superior in maps like Friction, which I completely do not agree with.

Then that's the weapon's strength. Rockets are still more likely to be able to reach across the entire friction map thanks to the long corridoors.

 

What about the fact that with energy weapons one has to go out of their way for t-energy? This may be a mixed blessing depending on the map, the mode, etc. If a person can't get a good supply of energy, then they're effectively out of ammo, and in danger of dying of 0 t-eng on top of that. Every time you kill someone, you get thermal energy, and you can get quite a bit, just don't spam shoot like an idiot and waste it all.

A person playing like that makes the no reloading complaint less valid since they don't have to fire another shot to make the kill. They only get something like 3 in succession before the weapon overheats.

And the operative word is "can" as far as getting energy off  killing someone goes. How oten do you get more than 1,000 t-energy off someone?

 

While I understand you prefer the simple Rocket Launcher, lets look at some pros of other Rocket Launchers.

 

RL2 allows for target tracking which no other heavy weapon boasts. Way too easy to dodge and roll, and don't even get me started. I can't stand this weapon haha.

They're not realy made for anti-personnel to begin with.

 

RL SP allows for mortar shots which means they're long range grenades. What other weapon can you reliably get your hands on arcs like that short of a grenade that'll have far less range? Further SPs have a clip. That makes aiming at targets a lot harder if you're trying to calculate arc. The bounce of vertical walls is cool, but I've seen the plasma cannon SP do the same thing, just not as extreme of an angle as the rocket launcher SP can do. The clip is probably the best feature of the SP, actually making it somewhat balanced with the firing capabilities of the plasma cannons.

Harder, but not impossible to hit. It stil has excellent range as well.

 

In the end, don't be afraid to change your equipment now and then. Personal bias won't get you far if you're using the wrong weapon in the wrong situation. Lost planet 2 is all about the right equipment for the right job even though some might make decent stand ins. No weapon makes the other completely obsolete thanks to that. They all have strong points they're geared towards more than others. Each weapon is unique (Cept maybe the gold ones. I dunno.) so look at the benefits of all the weapons. I do like to switch up my weapons quite a bit, but if you're saying that you need to have the right weapon for the right job, then does that mean you agree that the original rocket launchers have been made obsolete in flesh matches? That is what my issue really is. The original rocket launcher could be pumped up a bit to compete with the other weapons.

It's not obsolete in flesh matches. They're deadly, and can turn the tables in some matches. They still make a huge diffirence in the right hands.

Further if it contends with plasma cannons, then what's the point of plasma cannons?? Are you trying to make them obsolete?

 

Plasmas are likely meant to be used against fleshy targets. Rockets are likely intended to be anti-hard target. Regardless, the Rocket's range, and speed of projectile is an asset. That may be, but the hand cannons do a better job of destroying hard targets, dominates in speed, and works very well in flesh matches doing damage upon impact and while exploding. The only downfall is ammo, smaller hit boxes, and less of an explosion.

The hand cannons don't have superior damage to rockets, and you've listed off a lot of reasons to not use them versus fleshies. They're also less able to kill fleshy targets thanks to the delayed explosion, too. You practically have to make a direct hit with them, or luck out and hope they don't evade. With a direct hit, you're basically using a revolver with less ammo, and a rocet would probably do the job better because of the immediate blast.

 

IMO asking for buffs, and/or nerfs ain't going to work if you refrain from looking at the pros and cons of both sides.

 

So whether it be hand cannons, plasma cannons, or either of the other rocket launchers, the original LP1 rocket launcher has been made obsolete from my perspective. There are better weapons than the rocket launcher for any job, except fighting the Over G at the end of the game.

They're not obsolete. There's reasons it's good for fighting the over G, and reasons they're still viable in other ways.

Rocket Launchers have their strengths. Range, immediate explosions, some of the best damage if not the best, speed, can still squeeze into things better than a plasma cannon's huge ball, and can still probably do better at kiling people in cover since the Plasma SP bounces off vertical walls, and that's what most cover is.

I'll need a convincing arguement as to why they need fixes before I can really take it serious. I.E. Maybe a list of pros, and cons to each heavy weapon that aren't tainted rather openly with nostalgia, and preferrence, and a desire to make them great at everything.

If rockets really aren't doing the job, then don't use them. They're likely not best suited for the job, and/or your style. Making them better at the job would remove the purpose of other weapons, and that's not how LP works.

See, asking for buffs is pretty much the same thing as calling for nerfs as making one weapon better at something is inherently asking to make every other weapon weaker at it. Especially in an environment like LP2 where 2 weapons practically never do the same thing the same way.

It sounds a lot like you're just too attached to the Rocket Launcher.

Plasma Cannon's do have a reload time literally. If you shoot and then you want to shoot again instantly, this causes overheat(unless uses have T-ENG Weapon Master I but they still have to wait for 2 secs before)

 Plasma Cannon's actually make alot of noise, you fire it and it makes the pumping noise and then the massive explosion.

At this rate, everything will be nerfed. You have to admit, the flamethrower before the patch was a load of trash. It was completely useless taking at least 10 seconds to kill a single enemy. So the flamethrower actually deserved this buff.

If your still moaning, I suggest you USE the Plasma Cannon, or SP yourself!

Jun 20, 2010 -- 6:51PM, Deaco wrote:

So...If the plasma weapons are superier to Rocket Launcher Variations, why not just use the Plasma Cannon SP instead?

In LP1, I was always known as one of the best when it came down to rocket launcher matches. I hate to abandon it just like that because something new and shiny came along. I'd rather fight for them to make it better. The energy gun got totally revamped, machine guns are completely different, and even shotgun techniques have changed. Why does it seem like the only thing that's still the EXACT same is the original rocket launcher?

Jun 20, 2010 -- 7:18PM, Rebel_Raven wrote:

They're not obsolete. There's reasons it's good for fighting the over G, and reasons they're still viable in other ways.

Rocket Launchers have their strengths. Range, immediate explosions, some of the best damage if not the best, speed, can still squeeze into things better than a plasma cannon's huge ball, and can still probably do better at kiling people in cover since the Plasma SP bounces off vertical walls, and that's what most cover is.

I'll need a convincing arguement as to why they need fixes before I can really take it serious. I.E. Maybe a list of pros, and cons to each heavy weapon that aren't tainted rather openly with nostalgia, and preferrence, and a desire to make them great at everything.

If rockets really aren't doing the job, then don't use them. They're likely not best suited for the job, and/or your style. Making them better at the job would remove the purpose of other weapons, and that's not how LP works.

See, asking for buffs is pretty much the same thing as calling for nerfs as making one weapon better at something is inherently asking to make every other weapon weaker at it. Especially in an environment like LP2 where 2 weapons practically never do the same thing the same way.

It sounds a lot like you're just too attached to the Rocket Launcher.

I'll admit it, I am too attached to the rocket launcher. There was so much technique required to do good in rocket launcher matches in LP1. In LP2, they're now "heavy weapons" matches and if you want to use a rocket launcher now, it's more practical to camp and hide behind walls rather than using a run-and-gun mentality, and I can't stand camping. -_-

I can try to come up with a list soon when I get a chance. I'll need to do some more testing to make sure I have everything accurately descripted.

And Russell (didn't feel like quoting), the plasma cannons don't make any noise during their flight so you can't tell if someone is shooting you from a distance. Rockets get louder and louder as they get closer and closer to you. And the flamethrower was trash before the patch, but they boosted it a bit too much, especially since it's really difficult to see the person when they're shooting directly at you. Can't headshot someone you can't see. That's why I can't stand the blinding effect of getting shot by either plasma cannon. If you manage to roll it, you should be able to see the person rather than just standing there like an idiot, waiting for the whiteout to go away. And yes, three shots in a row. It cools down enough while you wait for someone to get up after knocking them down with it. Do you really want to turn this into a personal attack on me? Suggesting isn't complaining, arguing a point isn't complaining, trying to explain your perspective to the close-minded isn't complaining, and asking for feedback isn't complaining, get it straight.