Yeah let's just leave that conversation alone and let me try to put things back on topic by re-stating how to make AI's tougher:
Alright I have came up with a couple solutions to harder AI's let me know if these are any good.
-3 times the normal health of a real player
-the ability to know where vacant VS's are, and the ability to get inside them (health would be twice that of a player VS)
-twice the strength of a normal player.
Let me know if these idea would be helpful or a bust, again thank you for the feed back, and let me know if you guys want a summed up essay.
Sorry if this is a stupid question. What do you mean by strength? Do you mean they have stronger melee attacks?
no, this is a great question, let me clarify, I'm talking bullet damage so almost like having fire power 2 on without the negative effects
Also about the three times more health, I'm afraid that this would upset the balance of a lot of the weapons. It would take 6 body shots to kill with a rifle, 9 fully charged shots to kill with an Energy Gun and 3 shots with a Rifle SP. If abilties are turned off in a match and I can't use T-ENG Weapon Mastery II then how would I kill an AI with a T-ENG weapon if abilties are turned off? In order for AI Fill Slot to work then Capcom would have to completely redo the T-ENG Weapons and the weapons with low ammo (Rocket Launcher II and Rifle SP)
well unortunatley we are trying to make AI's harder to kill in order to get more people to agree. And this is the best way to do it.
PSN ID: Justin_Coplen
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I apologise if my wording of a previous post was inappropriate. As much as I would love to voice my opinions on the matter, it would not be contributory to the thread. There were certainly plenty of inappropriate words that came to mind while reading its response.
If I may clarify, its seems to me that most peoples concerns with having AI fill slot are simply faults with the AI themselves. Whilst I agree that the AI is far from perfect, I was simply pointing out that neither are we. No one wants people on the opposite team to be gifted with a super-soldier AI but at the same time nobody wants a useless AI on their own team that repeatedly runs out to get shot over and over again. We get players in real life that do both - but we don't mind it so much because it is a real person and their own level of personal skill compared to yours.
I think Capcom tried to simulate this by giving each AI in AI battle varying levels of simulated skill, as it seems to me that some of them are much harder to kill than others - and its usually the same bots towards the top of the leaderboards afterwards. Therefore I propose that the AI in AI fill slot should work in a similar way - randomly generated combinations of accuracy(between two predetermined values), aggressive and defensive play-styles and different weapons and abilities. Some could prioritise the use of VS's more than others.
This way, with a bit of tweaking they should be a more realistic replacement for a missing team-member and it would certainly seem more fair than a single default AI skill level. After all - different players have different skill levels too. With a single default setting for AI the same players would always be at either an advantage or disadvantage when facing them - this wouldn't be fun for those less skilled at the game as every time they play a game using the AI fill they would be at an immediate disadvantage. Using varying skill levels and behaviour patterns for the AI if implemented correctly should make the game just as fair as if they had a real player instead (in terms of skill and ability).
wow i never got chhainkilled from any vs's i still dont see how it wass inbalanced. truthhfully it was more balanced thhan it is now, most of thhe weapons strngths are o much and thhe weak ones are to weak. thhe games wasnt dead till thhe patches made it less competitive and more easy to exploit having no skill. hence the word skill if you have it you have it if you dont you dont. this conversation is getting old people you cant say itss unbalanced jusst cause you lose alot. if they were to swiitch thhe sgtrengthhs and weapons of dmc 4 or gow3 you would whine saying its imbalanced this is an action adventure more than a shooter. ai fill slot will only work on the original settings.
the game is dead because all thhey did was release gay patches and crappy dlc somehow ign went from 6.5 to 5.5 yep it lost sscore hmmmmm whats that mean
Losing a lot? Let me tell you something. My K/D in ranked team elimination matches is above 3.00!! I reached "Overlord" rank in less than 70 games. And, altough I dont like it, I have no problems showing other people "how I can lose" ;D I'm not god, but I'm good enough to be a challenge.
And yes, a VS camping guy on the other side on a huge map with a sniper like cannon isn't unbalanced....that's why the VS cannons in LP1 also had infinite ammo *ironic mode* There was a reason for having limited ammo for such a highly useful and powerful weapon. One of the most deadliest VS guns in the whole game. On certain maps post grab or counter grab became pure nonsense, just because of this one single weapon or better: it's infite ammo.
And no I had/have no problems defending myself against those VS whores in Version 1.00 and as I said before, I'm not losing many games, but after the patch players are using the VSs wisely and not spamming the crap out of the cannon. That's a significant difference, especially in RANKED matches where the skill reflects the result of a match, and not a single VS and its cannon. The overall balance was simply pathetic. I have nothing against VSs, but I dont like unbalanced weapons. And with Patch 1 it's just as fine as it was in LP1 :)
Weak weapons are still weak? Flamethrower? The flamethrower was totally useless in multiplayer and patch 1 changed it to a deadly CQC weapon, just like the revolver and the shotgun. I dont see why someone shouldn't welcome this. But ok, let's go back to Version 1.00 and basically forcing the players again using another weapon.
Oh and the game is "dead" because:
- people complain about the lag and missing online features like region filters everywhere, even in reviews
- its not a standard shooter >>> not easy to play >>> people automatically dont like it (most casuals)
- everything is so "slow" and not fast paced like COD4 etc.
and the list goes on. It's definiteley not because of a single patch, otherwise I could read right here, in this forum, which is a fan forum btw, hundreds of posts about a "game-killing" patch or something. But you are the first one who said this. If that is your opinion, ok. But it's a bit far fetched if you ask me.
The dlc is indeed crappy. Or better: too expensive (cauz we all know the maps already, old stuff for a high price...).
It's offtopic anyway. Just stating my opinion and saying that a single patch not "ruined" LP2.
P.S. I dont care about DMC4. It was boring like hell. Ninja Gaiden is IMO a better and more challenging action game than DMC could ever be. Just sayin' xD
I apologise if my wording of a previous post was inappropriate. As much as I would love to voice my opinions on the matter, it would not be contributory to the thread. There were certainly plenty of inappropriate words that came to mind while reading its response.
If I may clarify, its seems to me that most peoples concerns with having AI fill slot are simply faults with the AI themselves. Whilst I agree that the AI is far from perfect, I was simply pointing out that neither are we. No one wants people on the opposite team to be gifted with a super-soldier AI but at the same time nobody wants a useless AI on their own team that repeatedly runs out to get shot over and over again. We get players in real life that do both - but we don't mind it so much because it is a real person and their own level of personal skill compared to yours.
I think Capcom tried to simulate this by giving each AI in AI battle varying levels of simulated skill, as it seems to me that some of them are much harder to kill than others - and its usually the same bots towards the top of the leaderboards afterwards. Therefore I propose that the AI in AI fill slot should work in a similar way - randomly generated combinations of accuracy(between two predetermined values), aggressive and defensive play-styles and different weapons and abilities. Some could prioritise the use of VS's more than others.
This way, with a bit of tweaking they should be a more realistic replacement for a missing team-member and it would certainly seem more fair than a single default AI skill level. After all - different players have different skill levels too. With a single default setting for AI the same players would always be at either an advantage or disadvantage when facing them - this wouldn't be fun for those less skilled at the game as every time they play a game using the AI fill they would be at an immediate disadvantage. Using varying skill levels and behaviour patterns for the AI if implemented correctly should make the game just as fair as if they had a real player instead (in terms of skill and ability).
Just an idea, any thoughts?
sounds like you have played AI Battle and truly know what I am talking about, thank you. Yes, alot of people have issues with what will be known as AI Surfing. That is what we are trying to eliminate I posted some solutions about it, seems though as if only Daniel read and cared =( anyways, also your idea does sound very logical and correct (from what I know) mind if I just confirm what your saying is what I think:
So one AI's name is...xXnonox....or something like that anyways, he would have different skills than another AI such as DragonFire...or whatever it'a name is...also while Xxnonox might be defensive (guarding dataposts, guarding eggs, guarding Key points) DragonFire might be aggressive (seeking other players just to kill them, getting data posts, grabbing the egg and making goals) they would also have abilitys to match those persona's (that's the word I'm looking for right?) so Dragon Fire may have Fire power 1 and Quick return, xXnonox may have Special Guard II or whatever
Is that what your saying?
PSN ID: Justin_Coplen
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wow i never got chhainkilled from any vs's i still dont see how it wass inbalanced. truthhfully it was more balanced thhan it is now, most of thhe weapons strngths are o much and thhe weak ones are to weak. thhe games wasnt dead till thhe patches made it less competitive and more easy to exploit having no skill. hence the word skill if you have it you have it if you dont you dont. this conversation is getting old people you cant say itss unbalanced jusst cause you lose alot. if they were to swiitch thhe sgtrengthhs and weapons of dmc 4 or gow3 you would whine saying its imbalanced this is an action adventure more than a shooter. ai fill slot will only work on the original settings.
the game is dead because all thhey did was release gay patches and crappy dlc somehow ign went from 6.5 to 5.5 yep it lost sscore hmmmmm whats that mean
Losing a lot? Let me tell you something. My K/D in ranked team elimination matches is above 3.00!! I reached "Overlord" rank in less than 70 games.
And yes, a VS camping guy on the other side on a huge map with a sniper like cannon isn't unbalanced....that's why the VS cannons in LP1 also had infinite ammo *ironic mode* There was a reason for having limited ammo for such a highly useful and powerful weapon. One of the most deadliest VS guns in the whole game. On certain maps post grab or counter grab became pure nonsense especially, just because of this one single weapon.
And no I had/have no problems defending against those VS whores ^^ and as I said before, I'm not losing many games, but after the patch players are using the VSs wisely and not spamming the crap out of the cannon. That's a significant difference, especially in RANKED matches where the skill reflects the result of a match, and not a single VS and its cannon. The overall balance was simply pathetic. I have nothing against VSs, but I dont like unbalanced weapons.
Weak weapons are still weak? Flamethrower? The flamethrower was totally useless in multiplayer and with Patch 1 it became a deadly weapon, just like the revolver and the shotgun.
Oh and the game is "dead" because:
- people complain about the lag and missing online features like region filters everywhere, even in reviews
- its not a standard shooter >>> not easy to play >>> people automatically dont like it (most casuals)
- everything is so "slow" and not fast paced like COD4 etc.
and the list goes on. It's definiteley not because of a single patch, otherwise I could read right here, in this forum, which is a fan forum btw, hundreds of posts about a "game-killing" patch or something. But you are the first one who said this. If that is your opinion, ok. But it's a bit far fetched if you ask me.
The dlc is indeed crappy. Or better: too expensive (cauz we all know the maps already, old stuff for a high price...).
It's offtopic anyway. Just stating my opinion and saying that a single patch not "ruined" LP2.
as Off Topic that may seem I found a way to make it more on topic: You said the game is dead or dying, what I am trying to do with AI Fill is allow those players that stay true to LP2, to have 16 player matches like it was always meant to have without needing a bunch of real players that probably already traded their game.
PSN ID: Justin_Coplen
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I know, and I posted my thoughts about A.I. in multiplayer a little bit above.
I would agree with you, but only if the A.I. gets a huge fix.
Alright, I would like to know what we should fix about it. Are we talking AI skill level?
P.S I re-read my post and it sound bitter, but I don't know how else to word it, no offense if it was bitter sounding.
PSN ID: Justin_Coplen
-Support AI Fill Slots
-Have a Technical, Gaming, Graphic Design, or General Question? Vist My page and use the Meebo Questions Chat Box to have them be answered Instantly!
-Want an Epic Signature? Maybe of your Favorite Character? Contact me, via PM, and I'll make one for you! (remember to leave me a link to your page so I will be able to contact you)
Yeah let's just leave that conversation alone and let me try to put things back on topic by re-stating how to make AI's tougher:
Alright I have came up with a couple solutions to harder AI's let me know if these are any good.
-3 times the normal health of a real player
-the ability to know where vacant VS's are, and the ability to get inside them (health would be twice that of a player VS)
-twice the strength of a normal player.
Let me know if these idea would be helpful or a bust, again thank you for the feed back, and let me know if you guys want a summed up essay.
Sorry if this is a stupid question. What do you mean by strength? Do you mean they have stronger melee attacks?
no, this is a great question, let me clarify, I'm talking bullet damage so almost like having fire power 2 on without the negative effects
Also about the three times more health, I'm afraid that this would upset the balance of a lot of the weapons. It would take 6 body shots to kill with a rifle, 9 fully charged shots to kill with an Energy Gun and 3 shots with a Rifle SP. If abilties are turned off in a match and I can't use T-ENG Weapon Mastery II then how would I kill an AI with a T-ENG weapon if abilties are turned off? In order for AI Fill Slot to work then Capcom would have to completely redo the T-ENG Weapons and the weapons with low ammo (Rocket Launcher II and Rifle SP)
well unortunatley we are trying to make AI's harder to kill in order to get more people to agree. And this is the best way to do it.
So if I used a Rocket Launcher II on an AI, presuming I haven't picked up any ammo then that would take away 3 of my shots Leaving me with ONLY 2 SHOTS.
Yeah let's just leave that conversation alone and let me try to put things back on topic by re-stating how to make AI's tougher:
Alright I have came up with a couple solutions to harder AI's let me know if these are any good.
-3 times the normal health of a real player
-the ability to know where vacant VS's are, and the ability to get inside them (health would be twice that of a player VS)
-twice the strength of a normal player.
Let me know if these idea would be helpful or a bust, again thank you for the feed back, and let me know if you guys want a summed up essay.
Sorry if this is a stupid question. What do you mean by strength? Do you mean they have stronger melee attacks?
no, this is a great question, let me clarify, I'm talking bullet damage so almost like having fire power 2 on without the negative effects
Also about the three times more health, I'm afraid that this would upset the balance of a lot of the weapons. It would take 6 body shots to kill with a rifle, 9 fully charged shots to kill with an Energy Gun and 3 shots with a Rifle SP. If abilties are turned off in a match and I can't use T-ENG Weapon Mastery II then how would I kill an AI with a T-ENG weapon if abilties are turned off? In order for AI Fill Slot to work then Capcom would have to completely redo the T-ENG Weapons and the weapons with low ammo (Rocket Launcher II and Rifle SP)
well unortunatley we are trying to make AI's harder to kill in order to get more people to agree. And this is the best way to do it.
So if I used a Rocket Launcher II on an AI, presuming I haven't picked up any ammo then that would take away 3 of my shots Leaving me with ONLY 2 SHOTS.
haha! yeah that's true, that would DEFINATLEY stop AI surfing! haha!
back to being serious: we are working on other solutions to the AI Skill Level Issue, let me know if you find a great solution.
PSN ID: Justin_Coplen
-Support AI Fill Slots
-Have a Technical, Gaming, Graphic Design, or General Question? Vist My page and use the Meebo Questions Chat Box to have them be answered Instantly!
-Want an Epic Signature? Maybe of your Favorite Character? Contact me, via PM, and I'll make one for you! (remember to leave me a link to your page so I will be able to contact you)
Yeah let's just leave that conversation alone and let me try to put things back on topic by re-stating how to make AI's tougher:
Alright I have came up with a couple solutions to harder AI's let me know if these are any good.
-3 times the normal health of a real player
-the ability to know where vacant VS's are, and the ability to get inside them (health would be twice that of a player VS)
-twice the strength of a normal player.
Let me know if these idea would be helpful or a bust, again thank you for the feed back, and let me know if you guys want a summed up essay.
Sorry if this is a stupid question. What do you mean by strength? Do you mean they have stronger melee attacks?
no, this is a great question, let me clarify, I'm talking bullet damage so almost like having fire power 2 on without the negative effects
Also about the three times more health, I'm afraid that this would upset the balance of a lot of the weapons. It would take 6 body shots to kill with a rifle, 9 fully charged shots to kill with an Energy Gun and 3 shots with a Rifle SP. If abilties are turned off in a match and I can't use T-ENG Weapon Mastery II then how would I kill an AI with a T-ENG weapon if abilties are turned off? In order for AI Fill Slot to work then Capcom would have to completely redo the T-ENG Weapons and the weapons with low ammo (Rocket Launcher II and Rifle SP)
well unortunatley we are trying to make AI's harder to kill in order to get more people to agree. And this is the best way to do it.
So if I used a Rocket Launcher II on an AI, presuming I haven't picked up any ammo then that would take away 3 of my shots Leaving me with ONLY 2 SHOTS.
haha! yeah that's true, that would DEFINATLEY stop AI surfing! haha!
back to being serious: we are working on other solutions to the AI Skill Level Issue, let me know if you find a great solution.
How about putting an indication over their head so that people know whether their going for a human target or an AI target. I don't wanna waste my ammo or T-ENG on an AI.
